here's how it was explained by jay carney. >> this universe you're talking about here is 5%. that's the whole individual insurance market, 5% of the upon -- of the population. >> that 5% represents 15 million people. the whole obamacare is to get 30 million. and that's the holy grail. secondly, is it just the individual market that is going to lose their policies? >> no. small business plans are being forced under the new regulations to pool their workers with a larger pool of other workers. if they buy in the states regulated by the states, their insurance can go up quite a bit. they can lose their plans. lots of companies are facing this now. >> dr. emanuel, it isn't just small business or the individuals. there are -- forgive me, sir -- there are big companies: time warner, i.b.m., sears, wal-mart, k-mart, wall green are all saying they're going to take their people off their insurance and put them in exchange. those are companies making decisions how they want to insure people -- >> because of the way obamacare works. >> let me finish. before obamacare those companies cou